Translations used Main script layout Terms/reference layout

 

Translations used

 

So, are we going to refer to "魔神剣" as "Majinken" or "Demon Fang"? Using both could work, too. ~ pkt

 

Well, if we're going to be using the Japanese character names (Stan, Woodrow, Lion, ect.) then we should use "Majinken." But if we're using the English character names (Stahn, Garr, Leon ect.) we should use the English terms (though then we get into whether or not we should be using the original ToD's English terms for skills, since Majinken was called Missile Sword in that).

Though maybe we could also have a term translation page to compare the direct Japanese names of characters/towns/dungeons/skills to the original ToD translation (though many hardcore fans know what they are in both languages, I'll bet there are a few who might be confused because they know one better than the other). ~teefa

 

The term translation page idea sounds good, then the only issue would be deciding on one version and using that consistently, the rest could figured out using that reference page. (Added signatures for both of us. Easier to figure out who said what than having to look at the changelog.) ~pkt

 

I'd say for the Translation Page we should have the name in kanji/katakana, the romanized name, the ToD English term and any other terms used in the Tales series (just in case there are some people who only played ToD and are following because this is a remake, or if there are people who didn't get to play ToD due to it being hard to find or because they'd rather just wait on a remake with better engines). And we might want to include some of the terms from the war that had special translations in the English ToD.

For names, we maybe should use the Japanese ones because from my surfing of forums there are a lot of purists who complain if anyone uses the English ones. ~ teefa

 

::I think that the Japanese names should be used. Its kinda weird is other characters call out "Woodrow" and we are using Garr... besides, its easier for me at this point.

::Also, lets ask KusanagiLord (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/934092/46281) if we can use his Faq to fill in the kanji and other skills

::Should we move the skills so that it has its own page?

~ Kirby

 

Japanese names for everything are available on the ToDr @wiki, so that shouldn't be much of a problem. It's also completely accurate, as far as I know. ~ pkt

 

Ano...firstly, nice to meet you all. ^_^ I'm a friend of pkt's, and I thought it might be nice if I could help out a little bit here in terms of translation. Thank you for running through my work, teefa. Sorry for spelling Dimlos with a Y a bunch of times. It's just absent-mindedness. I actually typed Stan with an H a few times too, and had to correct myself. ^_^;

 

Anyway, looking at the existing translation of the next section, I saw an 'oniichan' in Chelsea's speech. I was just wondering if you wanted me to leave Japanese-isms like that, and name suffixes, intact. There's no exact way to translate them in many cases (you can sometimes get away with making -sama 'master', and oneechan 'big sis', but...). I suppose you could translate oniichan as 'big guy' / 'big brother' ala the little lion in Terranigma, but it sounds kind of silly even with Chelsea's childish manner of speech, so...um... Yes, it's really up to you. I suppose most people who go to the trouble of playing DestinyR will have at least a little knowledge of Japanese, so... Maybe there's not so much harm in leaving them as is? ~Mel

 

Oh, umm...I just viewed the scene in game, and realised that the '???' is actually Stan imagining Lilith, and not Chelsea. I guess 'big brother' is fine in this case, then. ^_^; Though it's still a relevant question for elsewhere in the script. ~Mel

 

You're welcome. I always say that sometimes you don't catch your own mistakes in writing, and a second pair of eyes is necessary; even I get my mother to look over my own essays/fiction after I've already done so myself.

I'd say the suffixes should be kept. They add so much to the character's persona and level of politeness (Philia using -san for even her good friends, for example). I've seen -san translated as Miss, Mr. or Mrs., but that doesn't look too good in all environments; it could work for strangers, but when someone uses an honorrific for their friend then it doesn't make sense at all (after seeing all three seasons of "The Slayers" in English, I'd always thought it was strange when Amelia used Miss or Mr. for her closest friends as a way to substitute -san). I also get a kick out of Lilith's constant screaming of "Oniichan!" throughout the game. And several of the children NPCs use the -neechan or -niichan suffix in reference to the heroes, even though they're not related. ~teefa

 

Okay, I've translated the second (minus skits) and third (complete with skits) parts of the script. They're not particularly troublesome language-wise...with one exception. Chelsea has a tendency to use...non little girl-ish words, that are obscure enough that Stan has trouble understanding them. Most of them weren't too troublesome to find an English equivalent for, but 'keihai' is giving me trouble. Dimlos's translated description in my script gives the meaning of the Japanese word, but the trouble is finding an English word that A) carries both meanings, and B) sounds obscure enough that Stan might not understand it. So what do you think? Leave it in Japanese and let Dimlos explain? Drop one of the meanings, and just stick in a weird sounding English word that covers the other? Please let me know what you'd prefer. ^_^ ~Mel

 

I'd say to keep the Japanese, since it's getting translated by Dimlos anyway. If we drop one of the meanings, the line won't come across in the same way. ~teefa

 

If you have a sudden stroke of genius and find a word that fulfills both A) and B), use that. If not, you could add a translator's note as a footnote (and possibly leave a small link to it). ~pkt

 

Hey guys, "Shikkoku no Tsubasa"... that's the "Black Wings" in every English translation. They're like as commonplace as the Sorcerer's Ring now. Why don't we just translate it as that, instead of leaving non-Japanese speakers confused? As for their annoying motto, "Shi-ko-ku! Shikkoku no Tsubasa! Yay!"... translate that to "We are the jet black Black Wings! Yeah!")? ~ CouchTomato

 

Main script layout

 

Broken off from the "should skills have their own page" question. Organization notes/suggestions in general should come here.

The game script should be broken up into separate sections, each section having its own page - therefore they can be edited in parallel, furthermore the change is more easily localized. I suggest going by the parts the 'Summary' texts cover ( http://www16.atwiki.jp/tod_remake/pages/60.html ). Translation notes should be placed as footnotes, comments to other collaborators (translators/transcribers) could go in the 'comments' section.

The menu translation page is okay, more-or-less, except I'm kind of iffy on the Swordian devices being listed there. By that same logic, the skill listing would fit there, too. Maybe this could be broken up by characters instead? ~ pkt

 

If we do decide to have the skills all on one page and not even the changed ones on the term translation page, we should stick with the same format, just so we cover all the names.

Yeah, we do need to have the script broken up in some way, whether it be on different pages or by having links that will jump you down to that section. That will just be easier on readers, whether they're cleaning it up for the site or are using it to play the game. Because if I load a save in the middle of the game, I don't want to spend time scrolling down to look for my place, and I'm sure others think the same way. ~ teefa

 

Okay, I have created the main table of contents for the script. The GameScript page should now basically contain nothing but that. The pages linked to correspond to the chapters of the game, in the storybook available in the game. Online, incomplete version of it here. The titles of chapters, and when they begin are also listed there. I'll change the "Chapter #" entries (the names only, not the links themselves, of course) to their actual names as I go along and translate them.

For each chapter, I propose the following format: three separate sections, first one for the event script, second for skits, the third for the matching storybook entry (which is essentially a summary). ~ pkt

 

Sounds like a good idea. Though is the first chapter going to be on the first page, or are we going to put just the table on the first page (that's how it's formatted right now). ~teefa

 

That's just me being lazy to copy-paste and figure out where the sections of the script begin/end. :P The GameScript page should only contain the table of contents - the rest should be moved to their corresponding, individual pages. ~ pkt

 

Okay. ~teefa

 

I'm temporarily posting the section names/numbers here, and when each part starts, just for reference. (taken from the ToDr @wiki)

 

０１　もの言う剣 - The talking sword - from the start

０２　山小屋 - Mountain hut - after Woodrow joins

０３　迷い子チェルシー - The stray child, Chelsea - after finding Chelsea (?)

０４　国境の街 - Border town - arrival at Janos

０５　雪の記憶 - Memories of snow - after the event with Mary

０６　神殿にて - At the temple - after entering the temple

０７　王国の少年剣士 - The kingdom's young swordsman - arrival at Harmentz

０８　王都ダリルシェイド - The capital: Darilsheid - arrival at Darilsheid

０９　静寂にたたずむ神殿 - The temple frozen in silence - arrival at Straylize temple (forest area)

１０　第四のソーディアン - The fourth Swordian - arrival at Radislowe

１１　砂漠の島 - Desert island - arrival at Cherik

１２　怪しい神殿 - The suspicious temple - arrival at Calviora

１３　美しき協力者 - Beautiful collaborator - arrival at Noischtat

１４　武装船団を叩け！ - Strike against the enemy fleet! - assaulting the flagship

１５　モリュウへの道 - The road to Moreau - arrival to the Aquaveil area

１６　奈落の底で - In the abyss - at the undersea cavern

１７　陽気な吟遊詩人 - Cheerful troubadour - arrival at Moreau

１８　いざモリュウ城 - On to Moreau castle - entering Moreau castle

１９　大暴れ！海の軟体生物 - Rage! Mollusk of the seas - at the Kraken battle

２０　しじまに沈む大王の城 - Depression in the Great King's town - arrival at Toukei

２１　ティベリウス大王の城 - The castle of Great King Tiberius - entering Toukei castle

２２　グレバムを追って - Chasing Greybum - ferry to Snowfreer

２３　南の港町 - Southern port city - arrival at Snowfreer

２４　凍える森 - Frozen forest - at the Tilso forest

２５　在りし日の思い出 - Remembrance of days past - arrival at Cyril

２６　秘密の地下通路 - Secret underground passage - arrival at Heidelberg

２７　ハイデルベルグの決戦 - Showdown at Heidelberg - after the battle with Daris

２８　久しぶりの故郷 - Home after a long time - start of second part

２９　再びセインガルドへ - To Seinegald once again - after meeting Mary again

３０　孤島の秘密 - The secret of the lone island - entering the secret Oberon factory

３１　悪夢の始まり - The start of a nightmare - after descending the elevator and discovering the undersea cave

３２　空中都市の復活 - Revival of the aerial cities - Hyugo's speech

３３　隠された鍵 - The hidden key - arrival at the hidden temple

３４　目指すは外殻大地 - Aim for the shell world - after obtaining the R-key and talking to Ritler

３５　転送装置を確保せよ - Secure the transporter - arrival at Ignasea

３６　雄略の顛末 - A man's circumstances - arrival at Ansozoon

３７　哀惜の佳人 - Grieving beauty - arrival at Rodion

３８　策士襲撃！ - The schemer's attack - arrival at Shusaiya

３９　天上の主 - Master of heavens - arrival at Belcrant

４０　闇に閉ざされた世界 - A world plunged into darkness - after the Aethersphere is complete

４１　魔性の襲来 - Demonic invasion - raid on Cresta

４２　天空都市攻略計画 - The plan to conquer the aerial cities - after speaking with Reynolds and deciding what to do next

４３　最終試練 - The final trial - reaching the Swordian lab and strenghtening the Swordians

４４　ベルセリウムを探して - Looking for Belserium - arrival at Junkland, headed to Trash Mountain

４５　レンズが足りない！ - Not enough Lens! - after speaking with Reynolds, recovering Lens from all over the world

４６　戦士達の夜 - The night of warriors - after you deliver the Lens to Reynolds and speak with the king

４７　未来へ向かって - Towards the future - after riding the flying dragon to Dycroft

４８　エピローグ - Epilogue - ending

 

Just to clarify, the chapter starts from where the line says, and continues until the next line? For example, the first chapter would be from the start until the scenes in Alba's cabin, then the second chapter would be everything in the woods until Chelsea joins, and the third chapter would be from when you start heading back to Alba's cabin until reaching Janos? ~ teefa

 

I haven't actually loaded up the game and verified that that's the case, but that seems to be the implication at the very least. So I'd say yes. ~ pkt

 

Interesting how short those chapters are; some of them take place within the same town. I remember the ones in Abyss going on and on and making me scroll down endlessly. ~teefa.

 

Added initial translations for the chapter titles. ~ pkt

 

I think "Berselium" would be Belserium; since that would be the Japanese name of the Swordian "Berselius" and his twin was a famous scientist in ToD2. Don't know for sure if she discovered it, but the names are too similar to ignore. ~teefa

 

Yeah, I know it's a ToD2 reference, I just forgot that the official romanization of Berselius was actually Belserius. ~pkt

 

Should the titles of the chapters/sections be all in caps? It looks kind of silly with only the first word beginning in a capital letter, since most books/movies/games/tv shows/ect. have their full title capitalized. ~teefa

 

You suppose so? Well, feel free to change things if you think they look better that way, aesthetics never was a strong point of mine. Fear not, I will complain if I think something doesn't look as good as it should, however remote a possibility that might be. :P You're welcome to introduce better chapter titles, too, I could only come up with what's currently there, which is... well, again, leaning more towards being functional than aesthetically pleasing. ~pkt

 

Chapter titles are okay as they are; we need more to know what it is rather than something fancy. I just figured the beginning capitals would be more familiar to most readers, since it's how most things are. ~teefa.

 

Well, I put all the kanji for the untranslated titles into JWPce and figured out...tentative translations for them. Still open to better titles down the road but at least now the page looks more uniform and every chapter has a title.

And a question. Should we put certain Rare Chats under their own heading and not the main script? There are some that come with conditions (like having a certain Support character or a character faint in battle) and can be activated at several points throughout the game instead of just where they currently are in the script. Or should we just leave them where they are now. ~teefa

 

02/21/2008: Hi guys, so this is my first time adding to the discussion here. So far regarding translation, I've been going over Kirby's work, editing grammar and making sure the translations are accurate (but most importantly, that they flow in English). Most of all though, I've been tackling the lines here and there that were skipped and left blank. Normally there are 2-3 lines per script, which isn't too hard to handle. But now I've just come across script 34, and there are like 20 lines left blank (what is it with Hugo's, Ritora's, and the Swordians' lines?). With so much less context, I'm not even going to try translating these. Instead, I think I'm going to start copying them down and writing them directly into the scripts IN JAPANESE characters. This will keep track of them, and Kirby can easily go back and rework these lines himself. Anyone have any objections to this? ~ Majutsuko

 

I dunno myself...mainly cuz I don't have translation skills. Most I could do is plug it into JWPce and hope something decent comes out. ~teefa

 

As long as no one here has any objections, then I'll just go ahead with my suggestion. By the way, what are we going to do for the Lion mode script? Make a separate section, copy&paste the Stan mode script and adding the new dialog? This could make things a bit troublesome for editing (i.e. grammar), and for the translating as well. (I mean, the Stan mode translation isn't even 100% yet, and it would be a pain to go back and forth doing things twice.) ~Majutsuko

 

Copy-pasted: My stance on the script-in-Japanese issue is the same as before: that's the way it should be done, but doing it manually would probably take more time than would be ideal. Furthermore, if a game patch is to be made some time in the future, extracting the script directly from the game would be needed anyway. So, no objections on my part, go ahead if you can spare the time.

Now, as for Leon's side: it could just be a separate section on the same page, just listing the differences. It could also use rolldowns (like the skits), if the differences aren't that numerous (see the Sandbox page if you haven't checked them out yet). Speaking of which, I'll move such copy-pasteable pieces of HTML into a "Templates" page, for ease of reuse. Well, when there's going to be more of them, anyway. ~pkt

 

We'd have to make seperate scripts eventually because of the differences. From using the Stan Mode script in my playing of Lion Mode, I often saw skits that were deleted or moved around, as well as parts of Stan Mode that weren't shown (because it focused on Stan and Leon wasn't around at the time). They also add new scenes and skits to Leon Mode, as well as a completely different opening section and a lot of things that happen between the gang separating and the next time Lion encounters them. Finally, it doesn't look like the chapters in the Storybook match up (I may not be an expert in kanji, but I did see some character names that weren't in Stan Mode script titles). It would be a pain to do things twice, however it seems like the best and most organized option as of now. ~teefa

 

I agree, a 2nd script section just for Lion's mode would be neater for the sake of organization. Of course the Stan's script still needs to be reworked, and should be finalized before Lion's script is even touched upon. This would make things easier in the long run, but the question is, is Kirby willing to do yet another run through Stan's side before doing Lion's? Unless we get the script extracted... Anyway I can still write in the lines he missed to cut him a break, but if I encounter any more than 2-3 lines per script, it just becomes too time-consuming like you said, PKT. So barring simpler lines and crucial blanks in Stan's script, I'm going to start leaving those blank. Same goes for skits, though I never intended to do those anyway, considering they're optional. ~Majutsuko

 

Yeah, that would make things easier since there'd only be a need to edit one at a time and we'd still get the organizational needs met. At this time, I'm currently working on an organizational script for Lion Mode, where I copy 'n pasted the Stan Mode script into a new document and began deleting things that don't exist there and add direction notes as to where scenes are in Leon Mode and what the basic point of it is (mainly for organizational means since I'm not good at translating).

Well, even if there isn't another run-through of Stan's Side, seeing as most scenes in the early part are represented in Lion Mode some of those scenes could still be fixed by playing it that way. Even though there would still be the beginning and everything post-Lion Mode to be edited, a good portion of the remaining Stan Mode could still be fixed in this manner. ~teef

 

Hi guys, I'll be adding some things here and there based on my very rudimentary knowledge of Japanese (but good enough to fill in some ...'s). For starts, I changed all the 'Noischat's to Noischtat, since everything here is going to how the game spells it anyways. If I were translating it though, I'd definitely fix that Germanese and call it Neustadt... literally German for "new city" and with the same pronunciation. ~CouchTomato

 

Terms/reference layout

 

Branching off from the Layout topic: I think the Terms part needs a bit of restructuring. Currently, it's mostly just a list of translation differences, which is definitely needed, though things should go beyond that as well. What I'm thinking is going from a bunch of squiggly letters on your TV to knowing what a certain item/skill/etc. does, not assuming familiarity with the original English game or the Japanese language. Translated weapon/armor/skill/name lists, basically, each in their own subsection preferably. Which brings me to my point, the organization of some of these lists. The placing of item and name listings are fairly trivial, but some of the info can be spread across character-related pages, since they're unique to individual characters. What I think could work would be having a separate page for differences between the old ToD and the new one, both translation and gameplay/story related. Then a set of pages listing the location/character names, weapons, armour, items, and everything else that appears in the item menu. And another set of pages for character-specific things, the spells/skills, tactics, and the Swordian devices. ~pkt

 

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. I'm thinking along the lines of a ToD veteran with the translations, but showing people exactly what things do will help. And some of the things are new so even a vet wouldn't know; I finally got ahold of my copy, and there are things I'm still not able to find online, like translations of the Titles, which could go in the individual Character Sections. ~teefa.

 

Okay, I just put up S.Device and Skills for all the characters. Of course, it just covers what I've either seen (from watching a myriad of YouTube videos) or have in my file (thus why characters that are my favorites or more popular with players like Stan and Rutee have more on there). It still needs the kanji for anything not previously on the site. If anyone wants to finish the thing, go with it, if not I'll do it as I go along (though don't expect the higher level skills soon since I'm not yet at 60).

EDIT: I forgot to sign it...silly me. ~teefa

 

Ugh, considering that I said I would do those lists, it seems I'm a quite a bit late. Anyway, if you aren't intimidated by regular expressions, you could use them to convert the lists found on the ToDr @wiki to English (jEdit works nicely). Such fairly mechanical stuff is quite a bit faster that way than by hand. That is the next thing I'll be doing though, when I can spare the time, which is hopefully soon enough. So I'd say you should only keep going at it if you feel it's time-critical, and "hopefully soon enough" doesn't cut it. ~pkt

 

Then I can wait; I was just bored the other weekend and wanted to get started on something. ~teefa